Open Thread for July 17, 2016….President Obama is right on Iran…

I support President Obama’s efforts to deal with the Iranian nuclear bomb efforts……

For those who think the Presiodent wasn’t able to stop Iran’s moves across the Midddle East and North Africa….

You’rer wishing on a pipe dream….

America is has NO stomach for sending it’s young men and woman into a war against Iran….

It’s THAT simple….

The Sunni countries of the Midlle East and Africa will have to fight their own battle’s….

This President is NOT about spreading Democracy across the region, I suspect because he has come to understand that it simply does NOT work there….

I have no illusions that sometime in the future Iran WILL produce a bomb….

But Barack Obama will be able to say it did NOT happen on his watch….

I have said this before and I will repeat it….

The Israeli Prime Minoster needs to stop compalining about America…And find some sort of accomidation with the Arabs on his border….They and Israel have a common worry about Iran….

How soon people forget about America fighting wars it can’t win thousands of miles from home….

I believe that inn the end President Obama will get his deal from Congress….It will be somewhat sloppily in the process…But it will prevail….

Scott Lehigh in today’s Boston Globe:

…The real choice here is a diplomatic deal or military action. Those who favor a military strike should say so.

And they should then specify why military action now is preferable to embracing an agreement that will extend Iran’s breakout time — the period needed to make enough fissile material for one bomb — from several months to a year, and keep it there for at least a decade.

Further, those who insist on the complete dismantling of Iran’s nuclear infrastructure and assert that that’s achievable if we simply screw sanctions down tighter need to acknowledge two realities.

First, the US can’t unite the rest of the world around the idea that Iran isn’t entitled to a civilian (that is, power-generating) nuclear program. Under the Nuclear Nonproliferation Treaty, Iran can claim a legal right to such a program.

What the major powers have been able to agree on is that Iran can’t have a nuclear bomb.

Further, as Obama and Kerry note, if Congress manages to scuttle this deal, we won’t get our negotiating partners to agree to tougher sanctions. Rather, they will abandon the sanctions regime. The net result would be less, not more, economic pressure on Iran…



Persia has been a regional power in what we now call the Midddle east for centuries….

There is no reason to think they would not want to do so again as America has done in the West…..

And this country too used arms to set up its creation…..

115 thoughts on “Open Thread for July 17, 2016….President Obama is right on Iran…”

  1. Republicans of ALL stripes have claimed that Romney would have won but for the fact that a lot of Conservatives were disenchanted with him and thus didn’t vote.

    I don’t agree with that myself,but they believe it ,so there will have to be some accommodation when a third of your party is explicitly REJECTING its establishment as seems to be happening here.

    No,this isn’t going to for easy AT All.

  2. Whether he has “peaked” or not is not the story really.

    I don’t think anyone here sees him as a serious candidate down the road.

    That’s nothing but a rather tired already media line.

    The larger point is that upwards to a third of Republicans are supporting this obvious rebellion against the GOP establishment.

    Yesterday, Ted Cruz launched an unprecedented attack on the Senate floor on Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell.I have already opined that Cruz is ,rather smartly in my view, positioning himself to inherit this support when Trump inevitably exits the scene.

    Some here have expressed the view that this fight for the nomination will go on for awhile .The longer it does and the more alienated this now VERY significant group of Rebel Republicans remain alienated from the GOP establishment the harder it will be for a Bush,Walker or Rubio to unite the party behind them

    Trump is not the only or even the most important issue here,it’s those who support him.

    1. Agreed on the support issue……

      But I still give him, or Cruz until Super Tuesday….

      In the end the wingnuts have to settle….
      That goes for BOTH parties…

      1. A good amount of those hardcore’s will probably not vote in fustration with the party?
        Same for Democrats?

  3. John Kasich was in town yesterday.

    Oddly he spent a good deal of time criticizing the Republican Party for squandering the Surpluses of the Clinton years when he was Chair of the House Budget Committee and shares credit for having helped produce these.

    He portrayed himself As an “Independent” Republican not bound by party orthodoxy.Indeed his remarks were more suited to a General Election candidate than one fighting for the nomination among the generally establishment oriented GOPers in SC.

    He was accompanied to former Gov And present Cong Mark Sanford who served with Kasich in Congress back in the Nineties?While offering nothing but praise for his former Congressional friend , he specifically did not endorse him.

    1. Monthly/Yearly numbers…..

      Jan Feb Mar Apr May Jun Jul Aug Sep Oct Nov Dec Total
      2010 – – – – – – – – – — – 1,349 46,334 45,025 55,085 54,677 43,222 245,692
      2011 47,966 39,347 44,757 38,939 36,714 40,773 43,736 47,267 48,272 42,916 39,930 30,572 501,189
      2012 70,416 36,740 40,218 30,960 39,682 31,647 44,532 42,190 35,063 75,167 66,447 43,767 556,829
      2013 45,099 32,788 35,799 41,427 36,012 30,659 35,349 43,485 39,173 39,852 35,080 35,627 450,350
      2014 32,872 40,480 31,942 32,658 42,732 36,128 38,006 34,417 35,703 35,742 32,430 26,283 419,393
      2015 34,601 36,545 43,208 44,833 51,565 57,821 40,234 308,807

      Best ever (Views/Hits in one day)

      All time ( Total Hits/Views)

      Comments (Total)

      (for those who don’t remember ….we did theme change in the middle of 2009 that wiped out all of the numbers from July 2009 to July 2010…There are posts starting from July 2009 )

    2. It seems that Kasich has alined himself with Jeb Bush’s view of things…..

      VP material?

      1. US Marshals paid Arizona sheriff Joe Apario
        A visit…
        Seems that the guy ignored turning over files requested by a Federal appointed monitor…
        I guess the monitor flexed on the sheriff and sent the marshals to get the files requested…
        Not a pleasant get together I’d bet for both parties on that one…

            1. I will bring up a new thread sometime today…

              It’s a summer Sunday and we ARE busy around my way…

              1. New Report Says Apple Was in Talks to Use BMW i3 as Basis for Electric Car Project

                Apple and BMW were in negotiations to use the German car manufacturer’s car platform for its electric i3 for Apple’s rumored car project, code-named “Project Titan”, according to a new report from German business magazine Manager Magazin ….

                More @

  4. From Political Wire:

    A new YouGov/Economist poll shows Trump now doubling Jeb Bush’s support among Republicans(28 to14%) ,despite his McCain remarks who many presumed would finish him off.

    The Poll also noted that while 2/3s of Republicans believe McCain is a war hero ,fewer have a favorable opinion of him, thus accounting for the failure of the issue to subtract from Trumps support.

    In my view, the continued attacks on Trump by Republican regulars is now feeding into Trumps support.Its the old “send em a message” routine that George Wallace tapped into in the 60s and 70s.

    1. So we have some pollsters saying Trump has peaked and a poll showing little or no slowing….

      That’s about normal…


      I think he HAS peaked….

      But I’ve been wrong before…

  5. Of course they are Jack and this is still a tricky question for the Presidential primary candidates. Folks like Trump and Cruz will play this card big.

    1. And the media will come down HARD on them if they do…

      It might be good for some…

      But the leaders of the party will even MORE convinced to fight for Jeb….

  6. Three Black churches have bulletin holes in them, the KKK is passing out pamphlets in Charleston , and certain Republucans are threatening to primary Republicans who voted to take the Confederate flag down..

    Just a reminder to those amongst us (and those no longer) who just can’t believe certain things don’t still go in in the American south.

  7. “It appears that Manila may need to take advantage of the Obamacare mental health provisions.”

    Like “One Flew over the Cuckoo’s Nest? ”

    I’m not in that kind of trouble yet.

    “I am sure he will be as grateful for those as he is for his social security benefits.”

    I intend to be able to afford more than Cheerios when I retire.

    PS: At least I paid in.

  8. Turkey attacking an ISIS target in Syria is a big deal because Turkey previously didn’t want to do anything that might help Assad.

      1. Israeli ambassador to Dems: Don’t fret about killing Iran deal

        Israeli Ambassador Ron Dermer’s message to House Democrats is simple: don’t worry about voting against the Iran deal, because no matter what, the U.S. will not allow the Islamic Republic to obtain a nuclear weapon.
        The message, described by multiple lawmakers who were on the receiving end, is meant to tamp down fear of what will happen if Congress votes to block the nuclear agreement. The U.S. and Israel have both said they would do anything to ensure Iran never gets a nuclear weapon.
        Story Continued Below

        Dermer and other opponents are fighting an uphill battle against the nuclear pact: Capitol Hill insiders say opponents to the deal do not have the votes to override President Barack Obama’s veto.

        More @

        1. These comment’s play to MY feeling that President Obama is indeed correct in getting his Iran Deal….

          The comments here indicate that Israel is COUNTING on the US carrying the heavy load for them with them only sweating lip service against a deal in OUR Congress against OUR President….

          As with the Republicans?

          They are assuming America will expend ITS young men and women to take the fight to Iran , while THEY stand by and watch…

  9. Watching the news this morning…

    Question to our conservative friends. Why is there so much gun violence in the US? Why have other countries been successful in preventing this stuff?

      1. Latest GOP try to derail Hillary Clinton 2016 run?….

        Clinton email scandal could prompt criminal probe

        Two inspectors general have taken steps that could prompt the Justice Department to launch a criminal investigation into the potential mishandling of classified information in connection with Hillary Clinton’s use of a private email server in her former role as secretary of state.

        More @

        (The GOPer’s must be REALLY scared shitless about Hillary , eh?….I’m waiting for another Benghazi headline next…)

        1. Update…

          The NY Times changes the story ….

          The New York Times made small but significant changes to an exclusive report about a potential criminal investigation into Hillary Clinton’s State Department email account late Thursday night, but provided no notification of or explanation for of the changes.

          The paper initially reported that two inspectors general have asked the Justice Department to open a criminal investigation “into whether Hillary Rodham Clinton mishandled sensitive government information on a private email account she used as secretary of state.”

          That clause, which cast Clinton as the target of the potential criminal probe, was later changed: the inspectors general now were asking for an inquiry “into whether sensitive government information was mishandled in connection with the personal email account Hillary Rodham Clinton used as secretary of state.”

          The Times also changed the headline of the story, from “Criminal Inquiry Sought in Hillary Clinton’s Use of Email” to “Criminal Inquiry Is Sought in Clinton Email Account,” reflecting a similar recasting of Clinton’s possible role. The article’s URL was also changed to reflect the new headline.

          More @

          1. I just read a Twitter note that has DOJ even denying they got inquiries for ‘criminal ‘ investigations…

            Oh Boy
            The New York Times is gonna takes beating on this if the story keeps falling apart…

            I smell a post coming…..

  10. Given it’s history, why would anyone count on Greece to do anything? And what does this have to do with Santorum?

  11. It appears that Manila may need to take advantage of the Obamacare mental health provisions. I am sure he will be as grateful for those as he is for his social security benefits.

  12. “Turkey agrees to let the U.S. military launch strikes against ISIS ”

    If Turkey attacks ISIS from behind, will Greece help?

  13. “Since you Republicans are opposed to any type of health care assistance ,what’s your point?”

    You don’t mean the GOP opposes the “kiss of life” too?

    Or do they oppose it only when performed by the same sex?

    Lets ask Rick Santorum.

  14. Since you Republicans are opposed to any type of health care assistance ,what’s your point?

  15. Jeb Bush who is often referred to here as a “moderate,” says we néed of to “phase out” Medicare.

    Bush made the remark before the group,Americans For Prosperity,the Koch Brothers political group.

    Yeh, some “moderate.”

  16. How about Israel doing the dirty work like they did to Iraq? Technically Iran is at war with them.

    PS: “Seven Days in May!” What a great film!

      1. And they CANNOT and will NOT do WHATEVER they want….

        Netanyahu is keely aware that for all posturing he needs the US to NOT be too pissed with him…

        Even his public was a little worried when things got sideways with Obama….

        Israel by it self , as mighty as everyone THINKS it is, does NOT need to subject its economy to a LONG protracted slugging match with Iran…(Even going into Lebanon was short events)

        Let’s all step back and take a reality check here…

  17. Well,certain Republicans seem to think it’s an option.

    Otherwise ,what exactly is their course of action if not Obamas agreement?

  18. The Iranian deal is the best we can do short of attacking the place, something we can do anytime, at least right now. It is totally up to them if they want war.

    With the other powers wanting out probably for economic reasons, the sanctions were about to fall apart anyhow. Still this is a calculated risk similar to letting the Nazi’s eat up the Sudetenland because it was mostly populated by ethnic Germans in order to maintain peace. Is there a peaceful use of Atomic power in that country?

    I will look to Senator Schumer’s opinion for guidance here.

    1. An American ATTACK against Iran is NOT an option
      Those from both parties against the deal have very short signed concerns

    2. I’m gonna be surprised if Shumer comes against something so important to Obama and Hillary….
      But he’s certainly in a hard place
      Being he’s from Brookyln NYC

      1. NY State will be requiring fast food places to pay at least $15 an hour in the future….

  19. Nothing would be better than Greece having changed their ways, and their economy getting back into better shape. And their helpers and lenders getting at least some of their money back too.

    This Tsipras seems way in over his head though.

  20. Zreebs is right, Mexican Americans would be justifying in asking why GOP Presidential candidates were so slow to respond to Trump defaming millions of immigrants but jumped to defend one man.

        1. President Obama will be traveling to Africa….

          Brookings ‏@BrookingsInst
          Read more about the biggest issues on the agenda for President Obama’s trip to Africa:

          1. Oh, fast stories fall….

            Greece has opened the banks…..
            The EU has sent them money and they are now paying back on the countries due loans…


            Bloomberg Business ‏@business
            LATEST: S&P upgrades Greece outlook to stable

            1. Breaking
              Blago has a Appeal’s Court throw out 4 of the 18 charges he was convicted of…
              More to come…

              1. Fox News had announced that the candidates that don’t make the first cut for their early August republican nomination for president debate
                Will have their debate for an hour
                Not 90 minutes
                And the event will be held at 5pm
                Not 12 noon
                The final first group of 10 has yet to be revealed…

              2. Apple reports it made money on iPhones
                Not computers or watches
                Microsoft takes a big hit…
                More later…

              3. 476 days to the November 2016 presidential election
                17 days the Fox Mews first 2016 GOP primary elections debate

              4. Morning All….

                Another day of the Trump show playing on the main stage on the Mexican / Texas border….

  21. And why the GOP Presidential candidates are more upset with Trump saying McCain is not a war hero than they are about Trump calling Mexican immigrants rapists and murderers.

  22. Still amazed that two faced Republicans don’t see any corralition between what Trump said about McCain and the whole party said about John Kerry.

  23. The Illinois 8th Congrssional District (Tammy Duckworth’s current seat) looks like it will stay in the Democratic column.

    Look at the candidates fundraising totals:

    Krishnamoortj (D) 621,000
    Cullerton(D) $135,000
    Noland (D) $42,000
    Straw (R) $352

    It is still early of course, but…

  24. Thanks for sharing Keith and for setting the record straight. You didn’t need to post this, but I’m glad you did.

    I’m willing to bet that C spent many hours trying to harm you.

  25. McCain looks almost as bad as Trump when he made the totally absurd statement that when he referred to Trumps supporters as “crazies,” he meant it as a term of “endearment.”

    A bald faced unmitigated LIE.

  26. And now Rush Limbaugh is defending Trump on his comments about McCain.

    The Donad may just survive this brouhaha relatively unscathed, much to the chagrin of the RNC.

  27. Trump has surged to 24% for in the latest ABC News/Washington Post poll. Almost twice the 13% received by 2nd place Jeb Bush.

    The poll was mostly completed before Trump’s comments on John McCain however.

  28. Republican presidential candidate Scott Walker says he would be prepared to attack Iran on Inauguration Day.

    Here we go again.

    The Republicans warmongering in the Midfle East.

    1. That’s one of the reasons he ain’t gonna be President….
      He doesn’t know any better….

  29. Me too.

    What’s amazing though as you alluded to is that a person would go to such lengths ,invest so much time,and in general just to have the interest to have pursued all this .

    It’s really weird.I mean WEIRD

    All to besmirch phthe reputation of one he has never even met?

    Let’s call it for what it is,


  30. Since there was a post here regarding a past event in my life, I felt it important to respond and then move on (basically because I consider it ancient history).

    Almost 30 years ago I helped to organize a petition drive in Chicago to change how the City elects its Mayor from a party primary system to an open primary where the two leading candidates run-off against each other. A system that is in operation today.

    The petition drive was opposed by the supporters of Mayor Harold Washington, and the political fire storm surrounding the way some of the signatures forced the organizers of the petition drive to withdraw the initiative from the ballot. There were clearly irregularities in the collection of some of the signatures, and it was determined that the initiative could not survive the scrutiny of a full signature binder check. At that point the controversy died away.

    A few years later Mayor Washington, after his re-election, died suddenly in office. At that point, then States Attorney Richard M. Daley announced his candidacy for Mayor, and his opponents revived the signature controversy to sully his approval rating in the City’s black community. Since I was closely associated with his office and his previous run for Mayor, my name, along with many other folks in his organization, was once again brought up in the media and Rich’s opponents demanded an investigation. At that point States Attorney Daley recused himself from the investigation and asked for a special prosecutor to be appointed. That prosecutor indicted a score of people, myself included, for petition irregularities. I was already living and working in Washington, and at a distinct disadvantage in dealing with the whole process (especially the grand jury). I, of course, pled “not guilty” and eventually went to court – a process that took several years, but, I prevailed.

    As I believe Zreebs surmised in one of his posts, no one with a felony conviction on his record can either get the type of federal appointment I held or a security clearance – it just doesn’t happen. However, this unfortunate situation taught me some important and valuable political and personal lessons – and I certainly learned who my friends were at the time, and have kept them close ever since.

    This also isn’t the first time this has been thrown up to me since it happened all those years ago. I had a federal infrastructure grantee threaten to “expose” my past to my boss in an attempt to get me to revise our construction budget, and they were brought up on charges of threatening to blackmail a federal official. (My boss was already aware of this issue.) In fact, many of my co-workers were well aware of how these things can develop in a political environment, and how they can be used politically (like I said, valuable lessons).

    So, as they say, “what doesn’t kill you” – and I made the best of my government career. I will not speculate as to why this was brought up now, given that I am now retired, but, like Jack, I marvel at the amount of time and energy that went into the research associated with this “revelation.” However, I will offer the regular contributors to this blog James, Jack, Zreebs, Scott, and Dave this opportunity (if James agrees of course) – if you have further questions about this incident, or want more background, you can email me directly and I will attempt to answer your questions (James has my permission to give you my personal email address). But, this will be the last time I will address this issue here, since I don’t consider my personal and professional life a topic for this blog – after all, I am not running for office and have no intention of doing so.

    1. Thank You for your back grounder on this…

      I will facilitate any inquires….

      Indeed….., “what doesn’t kill you”

      And I have no need for those who would come here to use this place for vengeful actions against others….

  31. As usual you point out the obvious.

    We ALL know that.

    My point has been ,and continues to be, that the Federal government is NOT going to come into a state where its citizens have voted to legalize marijuana ,as Colorado has done .and begin enforcing a contrary federal law.

    That’s not going to happen for political reasons and practical reasons.

    Anyone reading the article you cited can easily glean that there is much more to this story concerning this Indian tribe as I alluded to.

    1. MY point IS that as long as the Federal Laws against marijuhana remain on the books?

      The Fed’s CAN at ANYTIME come into ANY state and enforce Federal law…
      And THAT can be done EVEN in states where the state says things are legal…
      You may argue the point unto the cows come home…
      The fact IS there…

      It is up to the Congress to get this straight
      And I , for one don’t see THAT coming anytime soon…

  32. Ah James

    Explain why the Feds haven’t done the same in Colorado?

    Interestingly.I see that the U.S. Attorney has NOT filed any charges yet.

    There seems to be some internal dynamics between this tribe ,the BIA and local authorities.

    Do you believe Indian tribes are sovereign nations or are de facto wards of the Federal government?That is the issue here more than this “raid.”

    Now I look forward to your “explanation” (I e BS) about why the Feds aren’t swarming all over Colorado.

    1. Jack
      As I pointed out in the beginning
      As long as the Federal laws against Mahijuana remain on the books
      ANYONE having it CAN and May be cited
      Your argument is fine
      But the law remains something that is there…
      As you would say
      That is a fact…
      The Congress needs to decide
      If it doesn’t?
      Things can go both ways

  33. USA men 6 (3 of them by Clint Dempsey) Cuba 0 in the quarter-finals of the CONCACAF Gold Cup in soccer.

    However 4 or 5 of the Cuban players had defected to the USA/MLS, so it’s hard to judge by this single match.

    Semi-finals on Wednesday, finals next weekend.

        1. Ah, Jack?

          These Native American Tribes Legalized Weed, But That Didn’t Stop Them From Getting Raided By The Feds

          In the foggy early morning hours of Wednesday, July 8, special agents from the Bureau of Indian Affairs, the Drug Enforcement Administration and state and local law enforcement descended on the Pit River Tribe’s XL Ranch and the Alturas Indian Rancheria in northeastern California, seizing 12,000 marijuana plants and 100 pounds of processed pot from the two large-scale growing facilities….

          More @

  34. I don’t see Woods ever regaining his former heights.

    His best years are behind him and I dont see him besting Jack Nicklaus’s record.

  35. I read an article this morning by Robert Kagan, a well known Neo Con strategist ,that was scathing in his criticism of Republicans.

    He noted that while he agreed with their criticism of the Iran deal,they themselves are offering no alternatives, that the rise of
    Iranian power has been going on for awhile now and that they have met such with nothing but bluster and that indeed Republicans (save for Lindsay Graham) have actively OPPOSED measures that could have weakened Iran,mainly the reintroduction of thousands of American troops to battle Radical Islamists in Syria and Iraq,as Iranian power as a regional
    Hegemon has continued to grow.

    Of course I don’t agree with what Kagan is advocating but he does make the Neo Con case and basically ends up where I do.

    OK Republicans you’re against Obamas deal,

    What do YOU propose ,instead if your usual,

    No No No No No No No!!!!!

    1. It’s the anti-Obama thing…

      Republicans can’t get past it…

      And it’s costing them …More and More….

        1. …twiiter….

          CNN Breaking News ‏@cnnbrk
          Tiger Woods misses the cut at the British Open.

          Things have not recovered Ever since his wife broke his car’s rear window due to his wayward ways….

  36. On Iran:

    I’ve long thought, and often said, that almost were I an Iranian patriot, of any political or religious bent, I’d want my country and people to be protected when surrounded by nations with WMD (nuclear weapons): Pakistan, India, Israel, Russia, China … (let alone the U.S. Navy)

    The far better solution is not an Iranian bomb, but a plausible regional security arrangement. Unfortunately (even if the outside powers are moving from exploiting client states’ conflicts to encouraging reconciliation) this seems highly unlikely given the newest eruption of the Shi’a-Sunni conflict and the intransigence of Israel and the Palestinians.

    1. I believe that Obama HAS decided that he (US) is incapable of stopping Iran in the Shia – Sunni fight, and will simply give minimum help to the players that are our ‘friends’….

      I have said this before , and I WILL point this out again….

      In that part of the world?
      Our style democracy simply does NOT work…
      Bwfore Bush started and Bush II continued to destabilize things over there?
      Authoritative dictators ran the show…
      They where brutal…
      But the region WAS stable…
      I’m not codoneing their methods…

      Things are a mess now becuase of the underlying conflicts

      Just yesterday it was reported that the US is helping Egypt by giving it upgrade intelligence capabilities…

      Not me…
      After all the democracy stuff was tried and found wanting with the Muslim Brotherhood….
      Egypt is stable again….
      Let’s remember almost all of Egypt’s ruling military leaders have been thru US military schools…

      Further on Iran…
      I whole heartily agree with you…
      Iranian nationalism provides its leadership with support for obtaining a bomb….
      While the younger Iranians wouldn’t mind the religious leaders be gone….
      We have tried several times to get upraising against them…
      It has failed each time…
      I think the President maybe trying to take a chapter from our successful efforts to undermine
      totalitarian leadership around the world thru commercialism…
      Not military force that wastes OUR men/and women while the people we fight ‘for’?
      Stand on the side….

      Props to President Obama….

      Now if he just get around those in Congress who are short sighted….
      Or want us to go to war for people like Bibi Netanyahu….

  37. I like this quote from David Axelrod,

    “Iran is like the health care debate for Republicans,they are full of rage but no ideas.”

  38. This is a pretty good summation of the situation With Iran.

    I have yet to see the so called”liberal” media press these Republicans on how they would handle it other than airing their predictable ,”if Obama did it I’m against it “routine.

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