Open Thread for July 15, 2014…Democrats will NOT repeal Bush Immigration Rule…

The President has asked for $3.7 Billion from Congress to primarily pay for the processing of illegal’s that currently in the pipeline from South America…

The ‘2008 law allows authorities to send immigrant children from Mexico or Canada back to their home countries within 48 hours of a screening, but requires that children from Central America and other countries be granted an asylum hearing that can take weeks to set up.’

That law was passed during the Bush Administration….

The word from the Republicans now is they won’t authorize the money unless the 2008 law is changed so that South American illegals, even kids fleeing violence , are turned around in 48 hours as others coming from our border countries….

No Deal ….

That’s the word from Democrats in BOTH houses of Congress….

Republicans have steadily looked at the current situation as an enforcement one….

Democrats and others have asked that the humanitarian aspect of the situation be attended to FIRST….

THEN the discussion should go back to changes in the laws , if any…..

Now THAT’s a Good Deal…..

And if Democrats have to buck the President?

So be it…..

Democrats in the House and Senate said Tuesday they would oppose any changes to a 2008 human trafficking law Republicans have blamed for the wave of child immigrants crossing the border.

The opposition sets up a standoff and raises serious doubts about whether Congress will be able to act before its summer recess in response to what both parties argue is a humanitarian crisis.

Sen. Tom Harkin (D-Iowa) said he would work to make sure any changes to the 2008 law do not make it into a final funding package.

“The 2008 law, as you know, sets up a reasonable standard for requesting asylum,” he said. “That should never be changed.”

Other Democrats said the Obama administration never should have signaled a willingness to change the law.

“The White House shouldn’t have opened the door at all on that discussion,” said Rep. Raúl Grijalva (D-Ariz.). “The White House makes every effort, particularly on immigration, to try to split the baby. But in this case it’s impossible.”

The 2008 law allows authorities to send immigrant children from Mexico or Canada back to their home countries within 48 hours of a screening, but requires that children from Central America and other countries be granted an asylum hearing that can take weeks to set up.

President Obama has signaled a willingness to consider changes to the law, but did not propose new language in his request for $3.7 billion in emergency funding to deal with a crisis that has overwhelmed authorities at the border.

The White House on Monday punted on the issue of how to deal with the 2008 law, arguing it would rely on Congress to determine the “legislative machinations.”


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120 thoughts on “Open Thread for July 15, 2014…Democrats will NOT repeal Bush Immigration Rule…”

  1. Morning people….

    Breaking on twitter……

    Jake Sherman ‏@JakeSherman
    Significant that all US carriers stopping flights to Israel. DL flies from JFK. United from EWR and US from Philly. El Al serves JFK LAX EWR

  2. I forgot how bigger mess things where at the end of Bush’s 2 last term…..
    It IS strange going over that time and looking at today’s situation’s in Iraq and Afghanistan….

  3. Things are always a mess.

    This is much bigger though.

    Putin put a rocket launcher into the hands of people who didn’t even need it and were probably drunk when they used it. His country sold the Iranians their nuke tech so extension or no extension they will get the bomb. And the Russian (or are they Chinese) rockets the Israeli Army is after came via Iran.*

    Western Europe is energy dependent on Russia. Our Army personnel are frankly burned out that is if they haven’t been fired yet so any aid to the Ukraine is out of the question. We also now depend on Russia to bring our Astronauts back and forth from the Space Station.

    Negotiation from these positions will work?

    Only if Putin wants it to.

    *The problem the Israelis have is that rubble makes a better defensive position that structures.

    PS: As to Bush or Obama, “Eve of Destruction” is not a recent song.

    Gotta jet!

  4. Despite S/S Kerry’s efforts
    The Israeli’s are probably not gonna stop their ‘tunnel’ hunting until THEY want to….

  5. Election*Projection turns these four Dem. Senate seats to the GOP: Mont (Baucus/Walsb), SD (Tim Johnson, ret.), Ark (Mark Pryor) and W. Va (Rockefeller, ret.) seems not to have done any recent polling of polls, but their(his) blog says this about Georgia’s primary:

    Fiery Pastor Jody Hice Wins Runoff for Broun’s Seat

    When firebrand conservative Rep. Paul Broun gave up his safe House seat for an ultimately unsuccessful Senate run, House speaker John Boehner heaved a sign of relief at the thought of being rid of the guy who said Todd Akin was right about “legitimate rape,” who claimed evolution was a lie from the pit of hell, and who whined about his mere $170,000 salary as a congressman. Boehner no doubt thought that it couldn’t get worse. It could and it did. In a runoff yesterday to pick the Republican nominee to succeed Broun in GA-10, the voters chose former pastor and current talk radio host Jody Hice. Hice believes that First Amendment protections do not apply to Muslims, homosexuality is a disease like alcoholism, and women must obey their husbands. To get a better feel for where Hice stands, note that Karen Handel, Newt Gingrich, and Rick Santorum all supported Hice’s opponent because they felt Hice was too far to the right. Given the GOP tilt of the district, Hice is nearly certain to prevail in November and will be nothing but trouble for Boehner. He may also be nothing but trouble for the Republicans in the midterms as well. Democrats are certain to run ads in Georgia and other states trying to make Hice the face of the Republican Party to scare independents.

  6. There has been complaints from several places that this years polling for the midterm races has been uneven and sparse…
    Up to now most forecasters have given the GOPer’s an advantage.
    They seem to be following Jack’s reasoning that the Southern races maybe polling good for Dem’s NOW
    But will go Red
    With more whites over voting Dem’s that SAY tHEY’ll vote to pollsters now
    But don’t show up on Election Day
    If the polling holds though?
    Harry Reid stays as majority leader…

  7. …from twitter…..

    CNN Breaking News ‏@cnnbrk
    The FAA on Wednesday lifted a ban on U.S. airlines flying to Israel’s Ben Gurion International Airport.

    This action does NOT necessarily mean that Delta, United or American Airlines will start flying into the Tel Aviv Airport anytime soon…

  8. Nikki Haley in trouble?

    No.She will win by five to seven points.

    That “Palmetto Poll “is junk.It shows Sheheen @42% in the actual race among all four candidates!Then,incongruously.eliminating the two minor candidates,two percent of Sheheens vote now goes to Haley!

    Haley won last time by four percent.She will do alittle better this time.

    A Democrat hasnt won statewide office in SC in eight years .If anything,SC has become even redder.There is simply NO case to be made for Sheheen winning this race.

  9. Reading DSD’s article post from 2:06 yesterday afternoon, it should be noted that the man who thought Akin was right about “legitimate rape” and who “complained” about his 170K salary was Phil Gingrey(who finished in 4th place in the Senate Primary), and not Paul Broun(who placed 5th).

  10. I just watched Preet Bhara the US atty. For the southern district of ny on the Charlie Rose show
    Smart guy
    Needs to become less serious if he’s gonna do what I think he ‘ll do
    Which is to run something
    Either NY Governor
    Or Senator
    Or maybe even in a Hillary Amin as Atty Gen

  11. The Gates book references to Russia and Maliki are applicable to today….


    The good thing is he explains the ‘why’ on several things…

  12. Guys?

    This is one of the reasons why I think Obama is NOT gonna mess with Menedez on Cuba….

    Sen. Robert Menendez (D-N.J.) is threatening to block arms sales to Iraq if the Obama administration does not provide more information about military options in the country.

    The Senate Foreign Affairs Committee chairman on Thursday asked a top official on Iraq policy about the initial assessments by U.S. military advisers on the ground and was told the findings are still being sorted out.

    He can do this on ANY Foreign Affairs issue….

    Iraq isn’t thing….
    Blocking IS the issue….

  13. Good Afternoon people….

    Yes Zreebs….

    I’d like you to take sometime away from here……

  14. Listen guys

    We’re gonna have some boundaries here….

    I do NOT mind people taking shots at me…It comes with the territory
    But since I’m running this place I get the responsibility to set how far we go here…
    Some people have thicker skins than others…
    I have had to ban on person fro conduct here that is simply unacceptable…

    Zreebs KNOWS I was not happy with his accusation….
    And I will NOT back away from certain things….

    Some here live on confrontation
    That’s fine…
    But as other sites have done…
    I need to get a handle on the personal stuff…..
    I would like the comments to focus on issues…not on calling people names….

  15. Boundaries?? How about knowing what you are writing about James, that would be a good boundary starting point don’t you think. You completely over reacted to Zreebs, and that is clearly obvious, and now you are trying to cover it up with your usual bravado. No one buys it James, and as usual, you chose quantity over quality.

    Keep this up and you will only have your sycophants left, and even for you that will get boring in the long term.

  16. I read Zreebs statement.I agree that you overreacted to it.He was ,in effect, making a statement as to his personal belief .Instead of simply disagreeing ,you seized upon one word and magnified it all out of proportion.(see my comment on other thread this morning.)

    In my opinion,you should be MUCH more intellectually offended by the absurd comments and ,in many cases, blazing IGNORANCE displayed by SE ,than Zreebs word usage.

  17. Interesting
    I’m reading the Robert Gates book
    In it Gates ponts out that Europe
    In the case of Czechoslovakia and Georgia
    Europe burped and went back to dealing with Russia
    One would guess that even with the Malaysia plane shoot down it will probably end up the same if history is an indicator

  18. BTW?
    Kerry has struck out on trying to get a cease fire
    In the Hamas vs Israel slugfests….

  19. ….twitter….

    The Boston Globe ‏@BostonGlobe
    Russia has stepped up its direct involvement in the hostilities in eastern Ukraine, Ukrainian and US officials say

  20. It’s kinda simple, to my simple mind.

    Calling someone a liar is a direct insult.

    It’s an accusation of conscious mendacity, with the (usually malicious) intention of deceiving others. Its connotations are exclusively negative.

    In many cases, “liar” constitutes a “fighting word” that may mitigate the criminal and civil liability of someone who responds by punching you in the face.

    If you think someone here is declaring something that he (or she) knows to be untrue, there are an infinity of other ways of saying so, all of them well within the creative and intellectual reach of the average Polly Dog 101 poster.

    Winston Churchill, MP, famously saved himself from censure for using unparliamentary language by referring to “a terminological inexactitude” rather than the three-letter equivalent he had in mind and wanted others to think of.

    Over three centuries earlier, the Bard of Avon gave Touchstone the Clown a whole famous pair of speeches on such methods.


    But, for the seventh cause; how did you find the
    quarrel on the seventh cause?


    Upon a lie seven times removed:–bear your body more
    seeming, Audrey:–as thus, sir. I did dislike the
    cut of a certain courtier’s beard: he sent me word,
    if I said his beard was not cut well, he was in the
    mind it was: this is called the Retort Courteous.
    If I sent him word again ‘it was not well cut,’ he
    would send me word, he cut it to please himself:
    this is called the Quip Modest. If again ‘it was
    not well cut,’ he disabled my judgment: this is
    called the Reply Churlish. If again ‘it was not
    well cut,’ he would answer, I spake not true: this
    is called the Reproof Valiant. If again ‘it was not
    well cut,’ he would say I lied: this is called the
    Counter-cheque Quarrelsome: and so to the Lie
    Circumstantial and the Lie Direct.


    And how oft did you say his beard was not well cut?


    I durst go no further than the Lie Circumstantial,
    nor he durst not give me the Lie Direct; and so we
    measured swords and parted.


    Can you nominate in order now the degrees of the lie?


    O sir, we quarrel in print, by the book; as you have
    books for good manners: I will name you the degrees.
    The first, the Retort Courteous; the second, the
    Quip Modest; the third, the Reply Churlish; the
    fourth, the Reproof Valiant; the fifth, the
    Countercheque Quarrelsome; the sixth, the Lie with
    Circumstance; the seventh, the Lie Direct. All
    these you may avoid but the Lie Direct; and you may
    avoid that too, with an If. I knew when seven
    justices could not take up a quarrel, but when the
    parties were met themselves, one of them thought but
    of an If, as, ‘If you said so, then I said so;’ and
    they shook hands and swore brothers. Your If is the
    only peacemaker; much virtue in If.

    As You Like It, Act Five, scene four

  21. The House has voted 370 to 40 to require the President to come to Congress for approval to station troops in Iraq past a 30 day period….

  22. I dont regard calling someone a “liar

    “Fighting words”

    In South Carolina ,one of the MOST conservative states in the nation,someone calls you a “liar” and you punch them in the nose?

    You’re going to be arrested for Assault and Battery.

    I really never knew James and DSD were so hung up on words.Ah,well, chivalry be not dead!

  23. Good move by the House.They are just reflecting the OVERWHELMING view of the American people.

  24. Wow – lots of discussion this afternoon on this.

    I have several thoughts, but I will mostly confine them to DSD’s comments. I fully expected to stay away for at least a month or two, but since I have been the topic of conversation, I feel I deserve the right to reply.

    With regard to DSD’s latest “holier than thou” response, I recall how he called me a liar during the 2008 election. I criticized Romney for his “I am unemployed too” comment, and DSD called my comments “pseudo outrage”. As far as I am concerned, DSD called me a liar. Perhaps DSD thinks otherwise?

    It seems that at least three people here besides myself generally agree with my comment that James prefers quantity over quality – even though James says otherwise. You should be able to read between the lines James. And finally, my comment was that “you are either lying, you are either clueless or both”. I never said you are a liar. You might just be clueless.

    Thank you Jack and especially Keith for your support.

    Finally, SE, I have been critical of you in the past, but I must say that I have seen you develop over the years. You are now a decent writer – and you just keep getting better. I still don’t have a high opinion of your analytical or forecasting skills, but perhaps that will improve too. My parting suggestion to you is to suggest that you be your harshest critic. Read articles from intelligent people on both the right and the left. Continue to make predictions, but if you miss on them, then try to determine why you were wrong.

    I’ll probably check here what is going on every now and then, although I will adhere to James’s request to stay away – at least for a few months, maybe longer. If anyone wants to get in touch with me, perhaps Keith can pass on the message?

    thanks everyone – it was often fun.

  25. You raised it to that level Jack….
    DSD said he left
    His explanation says it all
    But then SOMEHOW you or others would have to use it to point to me in a negative way
    Oh, yea
    I’m NOT supposed to say that!

  26. I suppose if Obama doesn’t make phone calls
    The Senate MIGHT go along
    This I assume only applies to ‘combat troops’
    The special ops people below a certain level I’m sure he ‘a gonna continue to say is HIS call

    Menendez wants in on the evaluation from the special forces group, which is going up the chain of command I understand

    There really should NOT be a reintroduction of any sizable combat troops
    For me?
    Advisors at reasonable level if there are enough troops will to fight

  27. You raised it to that level Jack.

    Raised what to what level?

    Once again,I have no idea what you’re talking about.

  28. Uh James,it was DSD who labeled that word a “fighting word” and averred that it may “mitigate” criminal liability for punching someone in the face.

    I merely stated what should have been obvious, that the person so “punching”would be arrested.Accordingly,it was DSD who raised it to “that” level.

    As usual,you “thanked” him.

    Yes,”clueless” is the word.

  29. Now that you have advised me that you DID NOT mean to call me a liar….

    I have no reason for you to have stay away…..

    I’m glad we had this discussion today
    It’s up to you when you want to comment here…..
    But I have no problem now that this has been cleared up…

  30. Ok….
    I went back and read DSD’s comment
    I believe he gave the example as a abstract(You added the SC part)
    I agree that calling someone a name isn’t gonna make the judge happy that you punched that someone…

    I stand corrected on this….

  31. This place is getting to be like writing contracts in law….

    Turning on words and their implied vs defined meaning….

  32. Israel, Hamas agree to 12-hour pause in fighting

    In Cairo, Secretary of State Kerry said Friday that his efforts to reach a week-long cease-fire in the Gaza Strip fell short. But as condemnation against the Israeli rejection of Kerry’s terms rose, Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu agreed to a 12-hour “humanitarian pause” in the fighting, to begin possibly as early as Saturday morning.

    Early Saturday, Hamas announced it would also abide by the 12-hour pause. Dead and wounded people are still believed to be trapped under rubble and in isolated villages along jagged front line that runs the length of Gaza Strip. Many families in Gaza have remained in battle zones for fear of moving.

  33. Yes, clueless is the word. James appears to be oblivous to what people have taken so much time to say to him as he continues on his merry way. So let me be very specific James, you have only a basic knowledge of politics and are juvenile in your treatment of the people who post here – a bad combination that makes it tough on people who want to engage in substanitive political conversations. You also, ala Sarah Palin, play the victim when you actually are the one who instigates conflict through your firm refusal to acknowledge when you are wrong, and, of course, your latest manhood routine over the word liar and your attack on Zreebs.

    But, I particularly liked this patronizing little statement to Zreebs, “Now that you have advised me that you DID NOT mean to call me a liar….I have no reason for you to have stay away…..” I cannot tell you how funny that is James. Because you cannot see that you have given Zreebs a plethora of reasons to stay away. If there were more posters here it would be easier to ignore your constant comments on all things (absent, in many cases, of any basic level of understanding), but there aren’t, and it isn’t. So, as you wind down from four to three people who have anything to say here that even borders on what could be defined as reasonable political commentary, you can always console yourself with the knowledge that after five years you have two million hits.

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